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Refuting Jesus, Divinity on : John 8:58 – I Am

DID JESUS CLAIM HE WAS GOD: JOHN 8:58

Let us analyse this Claim of Christians who say that Christ claimed Divinity as per

John 8:58 Before Abraham was I am.

This is another quotation which the Christians bring to show the divinity of Jesus.Its from John 8:58.

Lets analyze this verse.

 “Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, Isay unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” (John8:58)

The reasons Christians give that Christ (pbuh) claimed divinity here are:

A. Jesus existed before Abraham.
B. “I am” is the name of God in the Bible (Exodus 3:14)

Lets analyze both the reasons.

A. PRE-EXISTENCE

If Jesus (pbuh) existed before Abraham that does not make him God in anyway because even angels existed before Abraham. They existed before the world was created. Does it make them God? No! Jesus (pbuh) was with God before Abraham(pbuh) , but in what form? Was he like a handsome young man moving around and then God reduced him to a small baby and put him in his mother’s womb? No No !It means in the knowledge of God we all were there.

READING FURTHER:

Does “I am” makes Jesus p.b.u.h God?

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Greek text of John 8:58 reads: Iesous epo autos amen amen lego humin prin Abraam ginomaiego eimi

There are two arguments which are brought forth with regards to this verse:

1) Jesus said “I am”, which is a title for God in Exodus

2) Jesus had pre-existence thus he must be god.

1) Regarding the first argument, if saying “i am” makes a person God then many of us are gods, indeed even in Bible others have said “I am” yet Christians do not assert their divinity. In John 9:9 even a beggar said “I am” in a very similar context:

John 9:9 Some said, This is he: others [said], He is like him: [but] he said, I am[he].

Greek text of John 9:9 reads: allos lego hoti houtos estide allos hoti esti homoios autos ekeinos lego hoti ego eimi

In KJV we see John 9:9 ending in “[he]“, however this is addition of translators, it is not found in the Greek Bible, hence “he” is in. In the original Greek text, in both verses (john 9:9and john 8:58) the same Greek words are used for “I am” : ego eimi.

If “I am” is used to assert divinity to Jesus then similarly a beggar must qualify as being divine since he said the same thing. The context of John 9:9 and John 5:58 is very similar, in both instances individual’s identity is being questioned, even more so in John 9:9, and they both form a similar reply. Why should Jesus saying “I am” mean he is divine but beggar’s reply mean otherwise?

2) Other argument with regards to John 8:58 is pre-existence of Jesus. However,the concept of pre-existence of Prophets and other man exists in the Bible. For instance, Jeremiah and Solomon both had pre-existence in the Bible.

Jeremiah’s PRE-EXISTENCE 1:4-5 states:

Jer1:4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Jer1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly Iknew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb Isanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Proverbs 8:22-30 speaks of Solomon’s PRE-EXISTENCE:

Pro8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro8:24 When [there were] no depths, I was brought forth; when [there were] no fountains abounding with water.
Pro8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro8:30 Then I was by him, [as] one brought up [with him]: and I was daily [his]delight, rejoicing always before him;

With respect to the above verses the Christians Must Consider Jeremiah and Solomon to be God as well, since they were made in the beginning as the verses shown above prove.

Trinitarians argue that this verse states that Jesus said he was the “I am” (i.e.,the Yahweh of the Old Testament), so he must be God. That argument is not correct. Saying “I am” does not make a person God. The man born blind that Jesus healed was not claiming to be God, and he said “I am the man,”and the Greek reads exactly like Jesus’ statement,i.e., “I am.” The fact that the exact same phrase is translated two different ways, one as “I am” and the other as “I am the man,” is one reason it is so hard for the average Christian to get the truth from just reading the Bible as it has been translated into English. Most Bible translators are Trinitarian, and their bias appears in various places in their translation, this being a common one. Paul also used the same phrase of himself when he said that he wished all men were as “I am” (Acts 26:29). Thus, we conclude that saying “I am” did not make Paul, the man born blind or Christ into God.

C. K. Barrett writes:

Ego eimi [“I am”] does not identify Jesus with God, but it does draw attention to him in the strongest possible terms. “I am the one—the one you must look at, and listen to, if you would know God.”

The phrase “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament, and is often translated as “I am he” or some equivalent (“I am he”—Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8;John 13:19; 18:5, 6 and 8. “It is I”—Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. “I amthe one I claim to be”—John 8:24 and 28.). It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as “I am” only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated “I am he” or “I am the one,” like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of God (as indeed he was), spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

At the Last Supper, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ.They said, literally, “Not I am, Lord” (Matt. 26:22 and 25). No one would say that the disciples were trying to deny that they were God because they were using the phrase “Not I am.” The point is this:“I am” was a common way of designating oneself, and it did not mean you were claiming to be God.

The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, Jesus must have been God. There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the mind of God.  A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in God’s foreknowledge. Verse 56 is accurately translated in the King James Version, which says: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” This verse says that Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ, which is normally considered by theologians to be the day when Christ conquers the earth and sets up his kingdom.That would fit with what the book of Hebrews says about Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God” (Heb. 11:10). Abraham looked for a city that is still future, yet the Bible says Abraham “saw” it. In what sense could Abraham have seen something that was future? Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ because God told him it was coming, and Abraham “saw” it by faith. Although Abraham saw the Day of Christby faith, that day existed in the mind of God long before Abraham. Thus, in the context of God’s plan existing from the beginning, Christ certainly was “before” Abraham. We are not the only ones who believe that Jesus’ statement does not make him God:

To say that Jesus is “before” him is not to lift him out of the ranks of humanity but to assert his unconditional precedence. To take such statements at the level of “flesh” so as to infer, as “the Jews” do that, at less than fifty, Jesus is claiming to have lived on this earth before Abraham(8:52 and 57), is to be as crass as Nicodemus who understands rebirth as an old man entering his mother’s womb a second time (3:4).

In order for theTrinitarian argument that Jesus’ “I am” statement in John 8:58 makes him God,his statement must be equivalent with God’s “I am” statement in Exodus 3:14.However, the two statements are very different. While the Greek phrase in John does mean “I am,” the Hebrew phrase in Exodus actually means “to be” or “to become.” In other words God is saying, “I will be what I will be.” Thus the “Iam” in Exodus is actually a mistranslation of the Hebrew text, so the fact thatJesus said “I am” did not make him God.

Trinitarians claim that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus because he was claiming to be God (John 8:59), but that is an assumption. There is a different explanation that is supported by better evidence: the Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus because they understood he was claiming to be the Messiah. At Jesus’ trial, the High Priest asked, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matt. 26:63). First of all, we should notice that no one at the trial asked Jesus if he were God. However, if they though the had been claiming to be God, that would have certainly been a question they would have asked.

The High Priest asked Jesus in very clear terms if he was the Christ because that is what the Jews knew Jesus was claiming to be.

Second,when the Jews heard Jesus’ clear answer (“Yes, it is as you say”), they accused him of blasphemy and said, “He is worthy of death” (Matt. 26:66). They felt he was worthy of death in the record in John 8, but in that record they picked up stones to kill him, while after hearing his “blasphemy” at the trial, they took him to Pilate and got the Romans to execute Jesus.

In Islam, we share somewhat a similar belief. The Quran says;

“When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam – from their loins – their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): “Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?”- They said: “Yea! We do testify!”(This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: “Of this we were never mindful”:(Quran 7:172)

B. The Christians claim that “I am” is the name of God in the Bible in Exodus 3:14.The verse reads

“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” (Exodus 3:14)

Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, God ( I am.)”

We have no objection in agreeing that God was there before Abraham.

If Jesus was claiming divinity here. He should have at least remained consistent in the usage of words. In Exodus 3:14 the word for “I am” is “haw-yaw’ Where as the word in John 8:58 is“Ego Eimi”

This is sufficient to prove that in John 8:58 Jesus did not claim divinity.

Furthermore if we analyse  closely we understand that this claim of the Christian Missionaries is destroyed intellectually, read on

ego emi (i am), Does this means I am God ?. It’s very strange that Christian Believe that “I am” means I am God

Let’s see John 8:28: Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Is this your God ? He doesnt do anything of his own self ?

‘Does “I am he” means I am God ????? And after it  says i do nothing of my own ? If God can’t do anything of his own, then who is this who can do something of his own ???

So we get to know that the word ”I am he” doesnt mean anything EVEN CLOSE TO DIVINITY.

John 8:24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Anyway he answerd in John 8:25: Then said they unto him,Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

So they asked him who are you? If  ”I am he” means I am God, would they ask him who are you ? If he said I am God would they ask him who are you afterwards ?

The  answer my dear friends is a CLEAR NO

LET’S COME TO  AN INTELLECTUAL CONCLUSION NOW

After Successfully proving that Jesus uttering  “I am” does not mean he’s God. Let us refute the last semblance of argument some Christians may have.

If Jesus is God just because he was before Abraham then even Satan was before Abraham, Will the Christians consider Satan as their God? Even Angels were before Abraham, Will the Christians start worshipping Angels Now ? According to the Book of Hebrews evenMelchisedek has no beginning and No End, he has no Father and no Mother (From the New International Version)Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life: Hebrews 7:3), Will the Christians believe that High Priest Melchisedekis God as well, will the Christians Worship him ?

Once again the answer is a clear NO

ARISE, AWAKE, FOR CHRIST SAID, SEEKETH THE TRUTH AND THETRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.

Peace be on you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkiP_Nf2gNo&feature=youtu.be Veryimportant interpretation about John 8:58

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Also see: http://callingchristians.com/2012/06/05/christian-arguments-why-jesus-is-god/

Who is the God of the Bible?”

“ONE” in  John 10:30– SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY

Mark10:6-9 and John 14:20, 15:1-7, 17:11, 17:18-23, 17:26

There are many verses in the Bible that speak of Jesus and God as being “one”.

But does this necessarily mean that Jesus is God? If you read the six selections above then you will see that we cannot take the word “one” soliterally. If we do, then we are God, as Jesus said, “…they also may be one in us” and “…they may be one, even as we are one.” What the Bible means when it says that Jesus is “one” with God is that he is extremely close to god, “as if” they are one. John 17:18-23 tells how we normal human beings can attain this “oneness” (or”closeness”) with God by being “sanctified through the truth.” Aside from this, neither the word “trinity” appears anywhere in the Bible nor any explanation of such a thing.

“LORD”DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN “GOD”

Matthew18:23-34, Luke 19:11-21, and John 20:26-29

Many of Jesus’ disciples referred to Jesus as “Lord”. Even Jesus himself said that he is their Lord. But does this mean that he is their God? If you read the three short stories above then you will realize that back in the Biblical time period most servants referred to their masters as “lord”. This was a common practice because it showed honor and respect for a person of such high stature.

“LORD”– A Lofty Title

Even today in many countries around the world such as England, “lord” is used in referring to kings, princes, and others who deserve such a lofty title.The disciples and followers of Jesus viewed him as their earthy master and themselves as his servants. He was a man from God who brought them God’s message of truth, justice, and peace. Who could be more deserving of the title”lord” than Jesus Christ? Besides, “lord” is defined by Webster in many curious ways.

A few of them are as follows:

A manof high rank in a feudal society.

A king.

A general masculine title of nobility or rank.

A manof renowned power.

A man who has mastery in a given activity or field.

Commenting on the word’s history, Webster says that “lord” literally means’guardian of the bread'”. He continues, “Since such a position would be the dominant one in the household, lord came to denote a man of authority and rank in society at large.”

In The Holy Qur’an also uses “lord” in the same context (see 12:23 and 12:41-42). This was simply the language of the time.

The word “lord” does not render the person which it is being applied to as God. If this were the case, then many human beings in the Bible would have to be considered God

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